Ignore a Flood Roadblock, Get Fined?

Sheriffchris June 19, 2012 at 02:21 pm

One of the issue is that these signs remain in place well after the flooding is over. During a flood I have no problem citing those who ignore the signs...but two days after a flooding incident many road closed sign may still be in place causing hardship for residents.

Upper Macungie Parent of 3 June 19, 2012 at 02:25 pm

As someone who lives near frequent flooding I believe people who drive through and get stuck should be fined. But I also agree with Sheriffchris that the signs need to come down many times before they do. We have been told by Penndot that there is a certain measurement that the water must be under for the signs to come down. I can't remember off the top of my head what that amount is, but do know that they do not always keep up with checking. My family would need to drive through the water no mater what as it is the only way in and out of our driveway. I don't think my employer would be to happy for me to call in to work for a week stating that I can't leave my house due to the road being closed.

Rochelle June 19, 2012 at 03:21 pm

I agree with a fine if you get stuck. I also agree the signs need to be removed - Spring Creek Rd. is a great state police trap long after the flood is gone!

Andrew Wilt June 19, 2012 at 05:52 pm

I am truly amazed by the mentality of some people, especially those who believe that the more laws there are, the better off we are as a society.
In this case, why would anyone feel that a fine is justified because a driver with poor judgment ignored a sign that was put in place for their own safety? Are not the consequences of a flooded car interior, or the total loss of the car, and the towing charges not enough? What real effect will the fine have for the driver? The sole “benefit” to paying the fine is more money for the municipality to hire more employees to place more signs so more foolish laws can be passed to raise more money for the municipality. Are our local taxes not enough? We need to have less laws governing every aspect of our lives, not more. I can’t believe the results of the survey - two thirds of the voters are victims of the belief that more government, rather than less, is better. (And for those people, are you concerned that none of the bankers and ratings agencies who participated in the sub-prime mortgage fraud and global financial meltdown have not been fined? Have you written to your Congressmen? I thought so.) The Founders would be mortified.

Michael D Siegel June 19, 2012 at 06:56 pm

Please send this to Ryan Mackenzie and LMT Board of Commissioners for Spring Creek Rd. Thanks
Dear Rep Stevens; Thank you for sponsoring a bill to protect drivers from by passing barriers for flood roads. This is the best bill I have seen in many years.. Please consider requiring municipalities to utilize the devices below to prevent motorists from bypassing flooded roads. The typical barriers are often moved by the motorists. These stopgates will prevent this from happening and can easily be seen at night. Motorists bypassing these stopgates would penalized the same as passing a train crossing gate. They can be made to be manually operated by the public works dept or police department, thus limiting the expenses to the municipalities. Grants should be considered by the state to place these stopgates on local roads where flash flooding is known to occur, especially at night. Did you also know that flood gauge readings can be remotely emailed to every citizen every five to thirty minutes when the stream reaches flood stage and starts flooding the roads? Thanks http://www.csc.cs.colorado.edu/~matthew/content/1995-05-stopgate/stopgate.html http://www.energyabsorption.com/products/products_stopgate_security.asp

Upper Macungie Parent of 3 June 19, 2012 at 08:04 pm

But what about those people who live within the flooded area. Putting these up that allow no one to cross would essentially strand these people out of homes for an undetermined amount of time.

Upper Macungie Parent of 3 June 19, 2012 at 08:05 pm

So I guess those people who go through the water and hydroplane hitting one of the trees at the edge of my property can sue me for there own mistake, but not be fined for going against posted road closures?

Harrison T Williamson, Jr. June 19, 2012 at 08:56 pm

why dont you do it yourself and in person?

atthebeach June 19, 2012 at 10:09 pm

agree...happens on Indian Creek Road

Ron Beitler June 20, 2012 at 01:01 am

All the comments about the signs remaining in place long after the flood has receded are dead on in terms of my experience on Spring Creek.

Ron Beitler June 20, 2012 at 01:05 am

You should absolutely pay the cost of water rescue and any damages you cause to public or private property. A blanket fine however is a bit of a slippery slope.

Michael D Siegel June 20, 2012 at 01:52 am

Lets be real here. If you live in Ancient Oaks, there are alternate routes to get to your home. Who in their right mind would be on Spring Creek Rd at night when it is flooded? You are getting around now with the bridge closed. Those gates are to protect drivers who cannot tell if the roadis flooded and to keep the idiots who think they can cross out of flooded areas. The Little Lehigh creek is right up next to the road with no guide rails. It would not take much for a vehicle to float away and there have been many water rescues already on this road. Common sense would dictate the placement of the gates and can be easily lifted by the public works crew after the flooding event and are reflective at night.

Upper Macungie Parent of 3 June 20, 2012 at 02:09 am

I don't live in Ancient Oaks. I live on Cetronia Road. There is no creek or river where it floods, which happens to be exactly where my driveway dumps out onto the road. If you put gates across the road at either end, I along with my neighbors would not be able to get in or out of our homes.

Michael D Siegel June 20, 2012 at 02:25 am

I am really sorry that you live there. I understand your situation completely. The geological closed depression that lies in the farmers field along the road is not big enough to handle the storage of stormwater. I would suggest that you discuss this situation with the township because the simple answer is to place a drainage pipe under Centronia Rd so it discharges into the Air Products basin. It can be done and Upper Macungie and PennDot are responsible for fixing this problem. The stormwater can be pumped if necessary. This problem was made worse by constantly repaving Centronia Rd and raising the road bed by not remilling so it acts like a dam and not providing roadside swales anymore to drain the runoff away.

Kaitlyn June 20, 2012 at 03:09 am

If my tax dollars contributed to an emergency caused by a distinct lack of common sense, and take away VALUABLE response time away from another possible water rescue not caused by stubbornness and stupidity, absolutely you should pay the cost. HOWEVER, the water levels and signage needs to be checked frequently. Every law passed is a freedom lost, that is true, but if people just made decent decisions, we wouldnt even need a government.

moderate Republican June 20, 2012 at 11:29 am

Let's just deport anybody who, for any reason, violates any law. That should do it.

Andrew Wilt June 20, 2012 at 12:47 pm

Upper Macungie Parent of 3 - Anyone who damages your property under any conditions with their automobile is responsible for doing so and their car insurance should cover your expenses. Again, any ticket issued is merely a money maker for the municipality and is minor compared to the consequences of whatever damage is done.

Carl W June 21, 2012 at 06:06 am

I believe people (honestly) need to be taught the dangers. No one goes through any area, if they think they can make it.
One thing - if they see a driver in front of them made it, they think they, too can. NEVER go through if you can't see the road. You never no what may have simply washed up that may puncture a tire, or two. Even if police (happened to me) ORDER you to go through a shallow flood, back up!

Carl W June 21, 2012 at 06:11 am

Very good point.
Also, remember, the rescues are often done by PRIVATELY OWNED & operated vol. fire companies. Maybe the State can pave the way for us, however, we are privately owned non-profit charities. Decisions to charge may well be left to us. Everybody makes mistakes!

Eric S June 26, 2012 at 09:18 pm

See, here's the thing. You can't fix stupid so sometimes ya have to legislate it. Ok, the moron has a washed out car and hurt feelings...big deal. His/her rescuers have families and lives. Which trumps which? Moron with a wrecked car or a family missing their loved one because of a moron?
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Eric S June 26, 2012 at 09:19 pm

Often the signs are kept in place until engineers have had a chance to assess potential damage to a bridge/road.

Carl W June 26, 2012 at 10:01 pm

Thank you, "Eric S," in saying signs may STAY UP 'til appropriate engineers determine the road/bridge is safe.
Either way, don't take the risks, and - if concerned,- call your city,twsp, or local PennDot! Think of this when other times you feel a warning or message is wrong - CHECK ON IT. As firefighter/officer, you may have just a split second, at best, to get out that fire exit you regularly store things in front of (yes, YOU, mini-mart w/ huge gas tanks)!!