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Busting the Myths Behind Voter ID

Do you want to know the reality behind the Voter ID law?

As anyone who reads my blog knows, I don't think very much of the PA Voter ID law, because it doesn't stop fraud, only voting. I do think you should have ID to REGISTER to vote. I started working the polls over 25 years ago and still am an inspector of elections who has sworn each election to keep them free and fair and that is exactly what I have done. NO one is more against election fraud than I, but I also fight for no one legally registered to vote to be disenfranchised.

The arguments for PA's law is based on rhetoric and not logic or facts.  I know, how dare I bring those two things into the conversation.

For your reading amusement, I would like to highlight some of the more popular talking points for voter ID and give you my take on them, based on the PA law and how the election process actually works here.

1. Illegal Aliens are voting.  Just how would they do that?  If they just went to the polling place, with all those officials around, (you know a place were someone who is trying to stay under the radar would go) and tried to vote, their name would not be in the voter poll book so we would call the county with their name and address, (like they would stay around for that) and check their registration. They wouldn't be there so they don't get to vote.

2. Illegal voter registrations. The PA law doesn't address that, but you do at least need the last 4 digits of your social security number on the registration form which is checked with the social security administration. 

3. Zombie Apocalypse voters or dead people voting. Birth dates are in the voter poll book so no one 40 is going to come in impersonating a person 90. That person would also have to be a clairvoyant forger because the signature would have to match the signature in the voter poll book. Signature doesn't match, you are asked for ID, no ID you fill in a provisional ballot, if you insist.

4. More votes than registered voters in a district.  You can't vote if your name is not in the voter poll book. If it is not there, and you say it should be,  we call the county and find out were you are registered to vote. If they say you should vote here you vote. If they say you are not registered you do not vote. If they say you should be voting in another district, you will be given directions. If you still insist you should be voting there, you get a provisional ballot which will only be counted if you can prove that you should be voting here. 

5. Everyone should have ID. I always find this one amusing because these are the same people who don't want too much government and are against a national ID card. Do you know that more than half of the IDs valid for voting in PA were non-existent when the law was passed and that's why so many people don't have ID to vote? Veterans' Photo IDs don't have expiration dates, 97 of the 110 PA Colleges and Universities didn't have expiration dates, PA care facility IDs didn't have expiration dates, and my favorite, PA state employee ID cards don't have expiration dates. This is why the PA supreme court justices judicial ID cards that would open many doors, is not good enough to use for voting. 

6. Voting multiple times. Since you do not need a current address on your ID, the PA law will not stop that. 

Do you know that usually when the PA assembly passes a law that another agency would have to oversee there is a 1 -2 year waiting period to get out all the bugs? The Dept. of State didn't even start addressing this until the end of July with a letter that did NOT tell the people on the no match list they were on the no match list. Yes you read that right. They have changed the parameters for getting ID NINE (9) times, leaving everyone, especially staff at PennDOT locations totally confused. And that's only the beginning. I really really know this subject and if you would like to learn more, post a comment. 

If you really care about free and fair elections, don't post your drivel in the comment section, get off your tush and help at the polls. Don't disenfranchise people who have been legally voting for years. You can also sign and share my petition to postpone the voter ID law so the 1/2 million legally registered voters in PA who are at risk for losing their right to vote this November, don't. http://signon.org/sign/postpone-pa-voter-id

JohnHerald September 30, 2012 at 03:49 pm
Adrian, your points are well taken. All of the cases proponents of the new law present as examples of the need for voter IDs relate to some other type of election fraud: Acorn, the new case in Florida, the election involving Al Franken, voting in Philadelphia, Sen. Bill Stinson's election - relate to registrations, absentee ballots, vote counting or some other irregularity. In the final analysis, a good law provides an effective solution to a real problem. A bad law provides an ineffective solution. Pennsylvania's law is the worst law of all: it's an ineffective solution that does nothing to address the real problems.
Karen September 30, 2012 at 07:12 pm
What is the big deal? I need an ID to cash or write a check, pay by credit card, go to the doctors or emergency room and to get a job. So why not to make sure I am who I say I am when I vote for the most important position in our country's government?
Adrian Seltzer September 30, 2012 at 07:24 pm
did you read the post? see #5. & the last paragraph about PennDOT staff doesn't know the rules to issue ID & the part about no current address needed, etc.
Cate Shea September 30, 2012 at 08:03 pm
But, I find it hard to believe there are people in this day and age who do not have any ID cards. Yes, I get that there are people who do not have bank accounts -- very few, but a few -- and people who do not have credit cards, and people who do not use the public library. There may even be people who do not go to any medical facilities, ever. But, is it not the case that food banks, welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc., require ID? If they do, why are we not hearing all the uproar about how "unfair" that is? When my mother stopped driving, she turned in her license, and Pennsylvania sent her a photo ID in exchange. That was the end of the last century. Those PA photo IDs for non-drivers have been available a very long time. I personally think it is obnoxious that we have to show ID so many different places these days, but -- we do. So, why all this whining about ID for voting?
Adrian Seltzer September 30, 2012 at 09:40 pm
Most of the people without ID to vote, have Id that gets them through day to day living, see #5 above. Since 9/11 Homeland Security made getting ID has been a lot harder, one needs a lot more back up info. It isn't extremely difficult to get ID if you have had ID in the recent past, but with the License centers being a lot busier, you have a much longer wait, something that can be difficult for a senior with limited mobility. Voting is a right, not a privilege, that's why the whining.
ted.dobracki September 30, 2012 at 10:21 pm
DEAD WRONG. "2. Illegal voter registrations. The PA law doesn't address that, but you do at least need the last 4 digits of your social security number on the registration form which is checked with the social security administration. "
Item #3 of the voter registration form requests Driver's LIcense ID as first option. Most people will give that. The second option is to give the last 4 digits of SSN. Most people wouldn't need to do that. And there is even a third option, which is to "check here" if you don't have either.
Adrian Seltzer October 1, 2012 at 12:11 am
Correct, the PA voter ID law does not address that. So my question is what good is it?
ted.dobracki October 1, 2012 at 12:56 am
The purpose of the driver's license (or other foto ID like college or government employer ID) for voting is not to prove citizenship - it is to prove ID and they all do that effectively!
Citizenship isn't needed for SSN, either, since you only need a work permit, and sometimes not even that, if you can prove you need it for another purpose. An ID requirement will prevent many types of registration fraud, since while groups like ACORN could falsely register "people", they couldn't produce them with valid ID's. Thanks for your work as an inspector at the polls. I've done the same in Indiana, which is the state that had its voter ID pass US Supreme Court scrutiny. As I've discussed before in these forums, the ID requirement actually helps the polls run smoothly, especially at the sign-in which can be one of the bottlenecks. With many voters needing to get re-directed to the right place, a phone call with data from the ID in hand makes the call very quick. No one gets turned away, since they can always vote a provisional ballot, and that really didn't happen much at all. And in PA, you don't even need ID when you go to the courthouse to validate your vote - all you need to do is sign an affadavit that you couldn't get an ID without some cost to you.
Adrian Seltzer October 1, 2012 at 01:22 pm
That affidavit is for the indigent only. As of this point you do have to produce ID to have the provisional ballot count. At the primaries during the dry run it did hold up the line and we were only doing a cursury check. When false regIstrations happen, like in FL and ACORN, it is not done to sway an election, it is done for the money, because people are getting paid to register voters. The signatures will not match if someone comes in to vote and ID would be asked for. They would get a provisional ballot which wouldn't count because they could prove who they are.
ted.dobracki October 2, 2012 at 02:20 pm
"That affadavit is for the indigent only" - NOT TRUE. According to the Voter ID law, you only need to attest that you don't have required ID. You do not need to be indigent or attest to the fact that you are indigent.
The indigent clause is included only as a very specific case, probably anticipating future legal challenges on theories that the poor would be disinfranchised, so the legislature wanted to show they covered adequately. But the operative words are “OR” and “ANY OTHER GROUNDS”, which broadens the availability of provisional balloting to any and every reason for not having the ID. HB934 of 2011 specifically says: “IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY THE ELECTOR SHALL BE PERMITTED TO CAST A PROVISIONAL BALLOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH SUBSECTION (A.4): (1) THE ELECTOR IS UNABLE TO PRODUCE PROOF OF IDENTIFICATION: (I) ON THE GROUNDS THAT THE ELECTOR IS INDIGENT AND UNABLE TO OBTAIN PROOF OF IDENTIFICATION WITHOUT THE PAYMENT OF A FEE; OR (II) ON ANY OTHER GROUNDS.”
ted.dobracki October 2, 2012 at 02:25 pm
The affadavit form to be used by voters at the county election office to attest that they don't have acceptable ID, can be found at the Secretary of States website, and is copied here:
AFFIRMATION THAT VOTER DOES NOT POSSESS PROOF OF IDENTIFICATION FOR VOTING PURPOSES By signing this form, I declare under oath or affirmation that (1) I am a registered voter of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or have applied to register to vote; and (2) I do not possess proof of identification as defined at section 102(z.5)(2) of the Pennsylvania Election Code (25 P.S. § 2602(z.5)(2)) and require proof of identification for voting purposes. In particular, I affirm that I do not possess any of the following forms of identification as defined at section 102(z.5)(2) of the Pennsylvania Election Code: - Identification issued by the United States Government that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.* - Identification issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired (unless issued by the Department of Transportation, then the expiration of the identification cannot be more than 12 months past the expiration date). - Identification issued by a municipality of this Commonwealth to an employee of that municipality that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.
ted.dobracki October 2, 2012 at 02:25 pm
- Identification issued by an accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.
- Identification issued by a Pennsylvania care facility that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired. *In the case of a document from an agency of the armed forces of the United States or their reserve components, including the Pennsylvania National Guard, that establishes the voter as a current member or a veteran of the United States Armed Forces or National Guard and that does not designate a specific date on which the document expires, the document must include a notation indicating that the expiration is indefinite. I affirm that I do not have any of the forms of identification listed above and require proof of identification for voting purposes, and I acknowledge that that this affirmation is made subject to the penalties of 18 Pa.C.S. § 4904 (unsworn falsification to authorities), which may include punishment of a fine of at least $1,000, a term of imprisonment of not more than two years, or both. ______________________________ Date of Signing Signature of Voter Printed Name of Voter
ted.dobracki October 2, 2012 at 02:55 pm
It seems that Judge Simpson has issued an injunction that stops voter disenfranchisement due to lack of ID for this election only, but still requires poll officials to ask for the ID during this election.
Anonymous October 2, 2012 at 03:48 pm
What I am about to say is a hunch. I realize there is no way to know this for 100% certain. I believe that the Democrats feel that the majority of their own people are simply not organized enough to know where their ID is or to go about getting one. The Democrats are worried about the welfare recipients who are not even looking for work because they enjoy the lifestyle of living off those who work. The also need the young voters because they are the ones who have not worked long enough to realize that it is ok for people who work hard and take risks to have something to show for it. Socialism does not work. The early Americans tried it and it failed. So, yes we can argue about the fairness etc and the validity, but deep down who are the Democrats worried about not getting to vote? Why aren't the Republicans equally worried? Maybe they are....but obviously most believe this law would hurt the Democrats. Why is that?
Adrian Seltzer October 3, 2012 at 02:15 am
The provisional ballot question. If they couldn't provide ID at the time of the election, because 1.they didn't have it or 2. were indigent. Once you have cast a provisional ballot, for it to count you have to provide ID to the county or sign an affidavit that you are indigent. The affidavit you have quoted is not that affidavit. The one you have is the one you file with other forms to get either the PennDOT photo ID for free or the DOS ID for free. I know it is confusing,
Yes we will still have to ask for ID, just like we did in April, but everyone registered to vote in our poll book, whose signature matches (or they have to show ID) will get to vote
Adrian Seltzer October 3, 2012 at 02:26 am
I got into this issue when the law was still a bill. I thought it was a bad idea because, knowing how the electoral process works in PA, I thought what they were presenting didn't do anything to fight potential fraud and I emailed, called or facebooked EVERY representative and senator in the assembly. They didn't listen. During the soft roll out in April, a senior, who votes in our district every election for as long as I can remember says to me "this will be my last time voting. I tried to get ID and they didn't do it at the PennDOT center closest to us and I can't get to the other center, she could sit in the car that long." That republican was the person that got me started on this quest. It is an issue of disenfranchising legitimate voters for me and I really resent the fact that everyone ass-u-me-s that you have to be liberal or a socialist to feel strongly about this issue. As an inspector of elections, I am pissed that voter turnout is what it is and a law to lower that obscenely low number was something I am not going to take laying down. That's were my passion on this issue comes from.
Adrian Seltzer October 3, 2012 at 02:36 am
That must be one heck of a lifestyle on a couple of hundred bucks a month.
Why is it so great when the mega rich and corporations park their money offshore and take every loophole they can to pay little or no taxes. Praise is heaped upon them, but if someone gets food stamps because they don't make a living wage they are vilified. I will say I think there should be a level playing field and all income taxed the same. I believe food stamps and the earned income tax credit are subsidies for business so they don't have to pay their employees a living wage. Just step back a second and let that sink in. Don't react too quickly, think outside the box we've been put in. Who benefits and who pays. It's follow the money every time.

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An interested bystander May 6, 2013 at 05:29 pm
Just pointing out facts. You are also forgetting that money withdrawn from an IRA or 401k (exceptRead More Roth IRAs) are taxed at withdrawal. I prefer my government not punish good financial actions. Sorry it's a quirk of mine, I think we should reward those who make good decisions, not punish them.
Tony Simek May 6, 2013 at 06:35 pm
I agree with you Interested Bystander. Problem is that if you punish the ones making the badRead More decisions, the Federal government will be punished all the time. In the current climate, poor decision making gets rewarded by voters. The middle class doesn't have a chance.
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