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Tell Us: Do You Support Gay Marriage?

Patch asks Lehigh Valley readers whether they support gay marriage

 

President Barack Obama has publicly come out in support of gay marriage, the first time in history that a sitting U.S. president has ever done so. 

Obama made the announcement via an interview with ABC News' Robin Roberts  on “Good Morning America" last Thursday.

Locally, the Greater Lehigh Valley Chamber of Commerce established a new council for gay and lesbian businesspeople in January.

Bethlehem's Adrian Shanker, president of Equality Pennsylvania, told the Morning Call last week that Obama has not gone far enough to promote gay rights and that his organization will continue to push Democrats such as Sen. Bob Casey to support gay marriage. Equality Pennsylvania has started an online petition to Casey.

The Call's report includes comments on the issue from local congressional candidates.

Pride of the Lehigh Valley - a group representing the local gay community - will celebrate its 20th anniversary next year.

Nationally, 46 percent of Americans disapprove of gay marriage while 51 percent support it, according to a Gallup poll. An additional poll says Obama's declaration won't change the way many people vote.

Tell us what you think. Vote in our poll and add your comments below.

  • Do you support same-sex marriage?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • Yes
        362 (44%)
    • No
        448 (55%)
    Total votes: 810
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
Related Topics: Equality Pennsylvania, Gay Marriage, Gay Rights, Greater Lehigh Valley Chamber of Commerce, and Pride of the Lehigh Valley
Do you support or oppose gay marriage? Tell us in the comments.

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william werner

12:44 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

I just want to say gay's marrying is there way of trying to get everyone else to say that there way of life is NORMAL and it is not ! if it was two man having anal sex could have a baby without adapting one or women need a man's sperm, while having oral sex can they have a baby,answer is NO ! YOU say you are NORMAL and GOD created you this way, so you mean that a adult man having sex with children OK too don't you ? because they say they where BORN that way to,did you know every country that did this fell ?ROME,GREECE, IRAQ,and so on ! GOD over see's every goverment in the world and the policy's they put in place wheather you believe this or not, ben franklin said year's before he died that this was a BORN AGAIN CHRISTAIN NATION and if any other group of people try to govern it with out it's belief's and teaching's and standard's and guardlines that the country will FALL and and our great nation under god will be NOMORE, and GOD will no longer BLESS this nation,WHY do all the other country's want to come here,because we O'BEY his law's and teaching's and share this with the other nation's of the world to be like us, JESUS shead his BLOOD on the cross as a PAYMENT for YOUR SIN'S and offered you eternal life as a FREE GIFT ! REPENT with REMORSE in YOUR HEART and turn from your OLD way of life, get a KING JAMES BIBLE and go to a INDEPENDENT BAPTIST CHURCH for has to grow in the teaching of your new christain life !

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frank moyer

11:48 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

WILLIAM IS TOTALLY RIGHT, I COULD SAY IT ANY BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neil Sagot

7:53 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

There are no logical reasons for anyone to be against same sex marriage. How does it hurt Hetrosexuals if others marry.These are Civil Rights Moral questions of equality.
This is not a religious question and no one has the right to impose their religious beliefs on others anyway. I'd like to know how Gov. Christie would react if the law prohibited Fat People from getting married. The good news is that the younger generations don't even view this as an issue. 20 or 30 years from now it won't be.

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PaulL

8:00 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

I regard it as a legal rights issue, not a religious issue.

EVERYONE should have legal access to marriage and its benefits, which are quite plentiful. Religious ceremony, on the other hand, should be separate from the legal benefits and as a result should be the decision of the individual religion or place.

I know that's just a start and I hope one day that nobody will object on religious grounds either. Legal discrimination for sexuality should be categorised alongside that for race and gender: unacceptable.

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PaulL

8:01 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Let's start distinguishing between legal and religious marriage, just as we distinguish between the law and religion in every other way.

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Michael

8:04 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

SUPPORT! These are basic human rights here.

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jennifer p

8:05 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

For it 100% legalizing gay marriage is way overdue.

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Kelly Hoffman

8:13 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

For those of you against it.....give me one logical reason why? Does it impact your life the way you try to impact and decide mine? Does my life control you the way you try to control mine? I am for anybody getting married,as long as it is legal ,humane, and consensual.

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Opinion

11:15 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

We are talking about deviants of society. What other animal (other than humans) would have sex with the same sex. Also, just think of life a hundred years ago. If everyone was Gay or Lesbian LIFE would cease to exist since there would be NO offspring. Hmmm... Beyond that homosexuality is sodomy, plain and simple.

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Rev. Tom Cormier

11:27 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

To the ignorant person below(or however this posts on Kelly's comment) many mammals have same sex relations particularly primates but including rodents, dogs, and a fairly long list of others. This occurs especially in conditions of crowded population. It is estimated that about 10% of the population is homosexual and always has been. Imagine if they had all been breeders the earth would have been overrun centuries ago. Everyone wouldn't be Gay and that statement is plain stupidity. Finally keep you misguided religious beliefs out of other people's lives. Jesus said NOTHING about same sex Love!!!

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careless fills

3:03 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Scientifically, using the theory that homosexuals are born that way, would it be correct to conclude that in the past, the absence of gay marraige has forced them to closet themselves and by default enter opposite sex marriages and thus be likely to procreate and increase in numbers?

Then, is the converse true? If they were able to enter homosexual marriages instead, would they effectively take themeselves out of the gene pool (at least to a larger extent) and their numbers will thus decrease?

Interesting questions, no matter what your take on the subject is.

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Ms.G

8:13 pm on Friday, May 25, 2012

This comment is actually for the person below who would like to have an example of another "Animal" who mates with the same sex... these are a few of the mammals (there are many other types of animals): Bison, Brown Bear, Brown Rat Caribou, Cat, Cattle, Cheetah, Chimpanzee,
Common Dolphin, Common Marmoset, Dog, Elephant, Fox, Giraffe, Goat, Horse,
Human, Koala, Lion, Orca, Raccoon... Most people "mate" more often than they have children.
To the "Christian" who is preaching his unedited rhetoric several messages above:
The bible is open to interpretation. It can be interpreted by an educated person who can reason that if God is perfect and man is his creation, then homosexuality can't be a mistake. Homosexuality has been part of societies longer than homophobia. The bible can be interpreted by ignorant people as well...
THERE is the form that goes with "where" as in "over there" THEIR is the one that means ownership. You meant to say: "their way of life is NORMAL"
ADAPTED is progress... adapting to the environment. You meant to say that two men need to ADOPT a baby, not adapt one.
If your God has no love for people who simply try to live their lives and love one another... imagine what he must feel about someone who slanders him and portrays him as speaking in a moronic manner. Argue intelligently-and without profanity-or keep it to yourself. The "Golden Rule": If you don't have something nice to say, keep it to yourself, Mr. Werner.

Nancy Reynolds

8:21 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Support it. I have gay and lesbian friends who are in committed relationships that have lasted far longer than some straight marriages. They shoulod be able to enjoy the same rights and privilges as others do. Time to recognize these rights for all people who love each other.

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WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.

8:23 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Remember prohibition?..That's gone...Women and blacks couldn't vote, now they can,..We evolve, so what's the big deal about gay marriage?..Please no bible crap on this matter...The book was used in the old days to vilify people who are different from them...Enough already!..Let's see Jack and John/Jill and Jane get married and be equal with the rest of us.

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Missa Eaton

8:33 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

There was an excellent set of essays in The Nation around six years ago with different arguments for why the right is against marriage for everyone. The one that made the most sense to me proposed that same sex marriage destroys the foundation of marriage to a Christian fundamentalist because there is no subordinate in the marriage. Literally, who will be on bottom?

A study conducted about the same time showed that individuals who self-identify as Christan conservative actually experience imagery of same sex intercourse when they hear the term "gay marriage." Imagery of other sex intercourse was not invoked by the term "marriage."

So these folks have issues. They want women to be subordinate to the care and control of their husbands (trust me, I've attended these sorts of marriage seminars in the south), and they can only think of what they consider unnatural sexual acts.

My opinion: any law that cannot be applied fairly should not be a law at all. Every adult who wants to be in a committed and loving relationship should be able to marry.

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Cathy Fox

8:35 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Against it... marraige should be between a man and a woman. Even the Bible states "man shall not lay with man".

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Frank

9:43 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Old Testament, Cathy. Do you eat pork? If you do (according to the Bible) you are also in *sin*.

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Christopher Mesch

11:16 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Cathy....doesn't the Bible say it is an abomination for man to eat shell fish or touch pig skin??? Hope you haven't been to Red Lobster or a football game lately!

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Eric S

4:48 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

We also need to kill every farmer who plants different crops side by side.

But that is entirely a side issue and not valid to the question of rights. What your proposing is that we as a nation follow the dictates of the Bible, a wholly unconsititutional direction. We are not a theocracy, ruled by religious leaders...like Iran. We are a republic with well defined separation of church and state.

In other words what the Bible has to say on the matter has absolutely no bearing on the issue and has no place in the debate. But if you truely beleive otherwise you need to lobby Congress to execte every NFL player....every one of them is guilty of the sin of touching pigskin on the Sabbath.

I would suggest you get your head out of the medevial period and jump a few centuries closer to 1787. That would be the year the Consitutution of The United States was ratified as the governing guidelines to our laws.

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Lower Mac Resident

1:46 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Cathy, when that final day comes, I know you and I will be very happy with our lord and savior in Heaven, living in the kingdom he has been preparing for his believers....thankfully we won't have a clue what those non believers will have to endure in hell......

Stew

8:48 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

I can sense of a lot of anger and hurt in some of the writings.

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Sarah C

8:53 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

I agree with Paul L. The churches have every right to marry or not marry same-sex couples, but the state? Your religious arguments don't apply here.
I'm straight and Christian, and I fully support marriage equality.

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Eric S

4:52 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

I agree. A church has the right to not marry gay couples as their canons and tenets declare. I have no problem with that. Just as on my private property I can pretty much tell anyone I want to get the hell off. But government has no right to deny anyone the right of marriage. It shouldn't even be questioned.

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Josh Popichak

11:14 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

@Maddie - Doesn't the Bible also tell us to "judge not, lest you be judged." ? Or does that rule not apply when it comes to homosexuality...? It sounds to me like you are doing some pretty serious judging, e.g. "sodomites." Why don't you leave that up to God, if that's who you believe in.

Lavoba

9:02 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

absolutely AGAINST - not God's will

Lavona

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Opinion

11:18 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Well said! Let the human race Procreate and live on Naturally (it can never live on if everyone is GAY) except for today's technology.

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Rev. Tom Cormier

11:32 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

So you know God's will amazing and again "opinion" who lacks the courage to put their name everyone would never be Gay such an assertion is just stupid!!

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PaulL

11:36 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Christianity, like any religion, should have nothing to do with the state giving out equal rights.

Reply to Opinion:
People don't turn gay by being allowed to marry the same sex. What kind of logic is that? They're in relationships anyway; this is just the legal recognition of those relationships.

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Eric S

4:59 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Who's God? There are a bunch of different ones and not all proscribe to the same beliefs. And what your insinuating is a government run on religious principles. What a completely bad idea. Think I'm wrong? Ask any Afgani or Iranian immigrant how life under a theocracy worked out for them.

But so long as your talking God's Will, how about you? Are you subserviant to your husband at all times? I suppose all those innocent murder victims are God's Will too? Have you ever touched a football on the Sabbath? If so, and it's highly likely that you have, you now need to have yourself stoned to death...you are a sinner and death is the penalty.

But then....how does that jive with Jesus's statement of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."?

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Maddie

11:04 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

Dear Eric S,

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" was a comment Jesus was making to the people who wanted to MURDER a woman for a sin. Please don't take Jesus' words out of context. He also told the same woman to go and sin no more. Last I looked, sodomy and homosexuality is against God's laws...and marriage is between one man and one woman. What God has joined together, let NO man put assunder. What you sodomites are trying to do horrible. MARRIAGE is an ancient Hebrew term, the first language known to mankind.

I am 100% against it!

James

9:11 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

For those of you against it.....give me one logical reason why? Does it impact your life the way you try to impact and decide mine?

Answer: Once marriage is redefined legally in this country their must then be a total change in the country's education process also. Textbooks, stories....etc all children must be taught that anything goes. No more king and queen, there must now be qualifiers. Also, sodomy and masterbation must then be protected as mainstream, normal sexual behavior. This is why Civil unions are the way to go. You still get your legal rights and the and foundation of marriage and sex as a means for procreation are protected.

The bottom line is that Homosexuality is a deviant behavior. When it is found that there is a physical, medical reason why someone must be gay, I would change my mind. This fact however, is never brought up by gay advocates because it is a behavior!

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Eric S

9:51 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Why would a change in textbooks be necessary? Does this issue change math or history? Masterbation is mainstream. Everyone has, will or does do it. Your lying if you say otherwise. Sodomy and any other techniques you want to name. Really?? You see nothing wrong in telling people what they can do in mutual consent and in their own privacy? That scares me. What comes next....that we must walk in lockstep as we walk down the street towards the book burning?

I may be able to give you a medical reason to accept that homosexuals are a natural part of our fellow human beings. They are born as homosexuals. Think about it. Who would choose to be gay when in general is causes more problems than most people would willing accept? Families might shun you, co-works might give you grief, complete stangers may curse at you.....the list goes on. Who in their right mind would willing accept that?

Answer, no one. It is perfectly logical to conclude that being gay isn't a choice but rather a matter of biology.

What I don't understand from those oppsed to the gay community is....what are you so afraid of? Just name once when a gay couple caused you a problem. I have to disinclude any answer that includes that you had to explain homosexuality to your children. If such a discussion causes you fear, then your kids already have a serious setback in life. Any parent who can't broach any of life's topics is doing their children a grave disservice.

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WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.

10:02 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Adulterous behavior among heterosexuals is even more deviant as far as I am concerned...Many of our great leaders are "deviant"...But who are we to be so judgmental anyway, as if we haven't strayed from the righteous path in our existence...And what we do in our bedroom is none of anybody's business...This kind of thinking could result in more devious behavior, such as clipping of gays' hair in school, torturing and killing Homosexual Matthew Shepard and God knows what else...HATE/INTOLERANCE is what this is.

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Rev. Tom Cormier

3:38 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

People are born gay into every ,culture, period of history, ethnic group and theology known to man. It has been decades now isn't it was removed as a deviant behavior in pschology. P.S. if you have ever eaten shrimp, pork or worn permanent press fabrics you are an abomination!!

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Daughter of the Most High

11:13 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

Rev. Tom Cormier, a Rev. from Hell perhaps.

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Frank

11:24 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

Daughter of the Most High ... on drugs?

Eric S

9:34 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

As a conservative I have no legal reasoning to ban gay marriage. Religiously I have no right to force my beliefs on others. Morally it's neither my business nor does it cause harm to anyone. As a human being why would I want to cause unhappiness to others by restricting their own choices?

In this manner conservatives are getting bad press. Please keep in mind that conservatism does not equal religious beliefs. Those so vehemently opposed to gay marriage are basing that on religious belief, in general anyway. That is fine, in America we're allowed that. But when that belief is being used to force legislation then there is a problem and I see it as a very large problem. Just ask anyone living under the Puritans how theocracy worked out.

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Josh Popichak

9:35 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

If you are against it, please explain why gay Americans should be taxed the same as straight Americans. It is fundamentally unfair to expect other Americans to pay into the system you benefit from without enjoying the same legal rights you have (and we all know that marriage has many financial benefits for couples, by law). This is fundamentally an issue of equal treatment under the law, and right now, gay and lesbian couples are being treated as second class citizens because they do not have the same legal right to marry as straight couples. In the year 2012, I find that shameful.

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Opinion

11:21 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Too bad Josh! Why doesn't all Gays just live a correct religious life like it says in the Bible (unless you, of course dispute or don't believe in the bible).
I believe the Religious aspect is of much higher importance than just taxes (but I guess you don't, since money seems to be the motivator or excuse for GAYS).

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PaulL

11:34 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Response to Opinion:

You're speaking as if all people belong to Christianity. States should not be run by religious laws.

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Eric S

5:05 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

@ Opinion.....who give you any right to expect or demand everyone live a "Christian" life?? Just what country do you think your living in? Damn man, go read the Bill of Rights. It expressly forbids religious intorerance and openly states we have the right to any religion we choose. By default it also gives us the right to have no religion at all. Get with the program here.....you can be a Christian, I can worship the devil. You live your life and I'll live mine. We are NOT a theocracy. If that is your wish try Iran.

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Daughter of the Most High

11:16 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

Because marriage is a Godly term used by both the Israelites and the Christians. Let them use a DIFFERENT TERM and let them keep their sex life private. What they are doing is ANYTHING but marriage in God's eyes! Shame on YOU, Mr. Popichak!

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Josh Popichak

11:19 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

@Daughter of the Most High - There you again. Judging. You have no right to judge others regarding this issue. Period. I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Frank

9:40 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

The thing that people don't seem to realize is that Marriage isn't "owned" or "exclusively" accorded to one religious faith, like Christians seem to like to believe...... Marriage goes back before recorded history, which would mean it would predate the Bible, and since everyone in the world wasn't Christian, then it can't "belong" to Christianity alone, or any religion or culture. Gay Marriage will win in the courts, and not by states placing it on a ballot and letting an ignorant majority vote against a minority.

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c harv

9:42 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Support. Marriage is a civil rights issue.

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Kathy Pacheco

9:43 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

I am a daughter, sister, cousin, friend, grandaughter, mother, and lesbian. I have a beautiful girlfriend who no one in this world is going to convince me that God does not like that I am in love. Why would God give me this person who is so perfect for me and not want me to be in love with her? How can God hate me for loving someone? How can He be against that?? I believe in Him, I do not believe in a book written by men, and this country should not deny anyone of thier rights because several guys from hundreds of years ago decided to write a book.

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Justin K.

7:43 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Well said Kathy.

God be with both of you.

David Delp

9:52 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Absolutely! This is a non-issue. Let's move on to other issues!

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charles hampton

9:55 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

I may not fully understand the logic that people feel a need to be legally married, but civil rights are for EVERYONE, regardless of their life choices. I have to support my LGBT friends!

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Rev. Tom Cormier

3:49 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Charles it is about more than having their relationship validated. Say a sama sex couple has been together for twenty years and one gets sick, many hospitals do not recognize the relationship so no visiting rights or input about care if the patient can't speak for themselves. The have a home that bought have paid for if ones dies no automatic inheritance as with a hetero couple and the list goes on and on. There are over 700 rights given to married couples that same sex couple do not have and have to jump through many legal hoops to secure their family.

Ron Salmon

10:18 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

If we are going to legislate based on "God's will," whose God shall we legislate under? Should we legislate under Sharia law? Christian law? Jewish law? There are people of many faiths among us, each as sure as the next that they have a better understanding of "God's will."

There are plenty of countries that have official religions. Any American who would rather live in a country governed by their "God's will" is free to move there. However, we happen to live in a country that has a secular government - one whose laws are based on separation of church and state.

There is no non-religious justification for treating homosexuals any differently from the rest of society. In fact, even any religious justification is clearly debatable, as this thread has shown. Personally I see no reason, religiously or otherwise, to oppose any homosexual's ability to enjoy the same same legal rights that I enjoy, as an equal citizen of this country. If their pastor feels differently, that is between them and their pastor - not their government.

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another point of view

10:22 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

f we do change it, I see big advantages. Since marriage is not about the family anymore, we should change all those benefit laws that reward spouses for simply being spouses. That will save programs like Social Security billions, maybe trillions. I know many men get the max SSI benefit of $25,000, their non- working, stay-at-home wives will get $600. Do the math. Kiss the deficit good-by. (Did you really think these wise politicials are in favor of marriage in any form? Marriage costs the government billions. No more Ralph Kramdens who always said “no wife of mine is going to work. . . If I lose my job, we’ll go on relief ”.) Face it. Marriage-anyway you want to define it- has been taking advantage of us all for a long time

No fault divorce has destroyed the concept of traditional family. And, the social acceptance of children born outside of marriage has changed definitions of family. The whole idea of marriage is an anachronism. Today, it's really about the benefits.

An example: When did the last civil war Union Veteran' widow die? You probably think at least fifty years ago. She did receive a government pension based on her husband's military service in 1865 until the day she died in 2003. ( She married an 81 year old veteran when she was 18.) Marriage in 21st century America is about the benefits, not protecting the family. Get rid of the benefits and save us all a lot of money.

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Scott Korin

2:54 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Social Security shouldn't be affecting the deficit to begin with, if it was managed the way it was intended to be managed.

Michael

10:47 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Completely and whole-heartedly for it. So many people who are against gay marriage cite their religious beliefs, so let's put it this way: there are indeed hundreds of churches in this country who believe that God blesses same-sex relationships just as He does opposite-sex relationships (the list includes some Baptist churches, some Pentecostal churches, some Lutheran churches, Episcopals, Quakers, and many more). So why should the laws that rule us all be controlled by the beliefs of a majority of churches, and imposed on the minority of churches who disagree? That completely violates religious freedom!

Same-sex relationships harm absolutely no one. If it's two consenting adults who want to enter into a loving faithful relationship with each other, then what's so evil about that?

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Justin K.

7:51 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Exactly, not enough people get that.

Also, religion doesn't even have to come into it at all. It's a civil rights issue, granting American citizens rights they shouldn't even have to fight for.

How can anyone deny someone else's day of happiness? And their rights thereof?

Kelly

11:06 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

I'm all for it. The only people who can control the sanctity of my marriage is me and my husband! I look forward to the day when it is just called marriage not gay marriage.

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Mark Albright

11:06 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Civil rights are *not* an appropriate subject for a poll or referendum. What if the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had been left up to the states to enact? Blacks would still be using separate bathrooms and water fountains to this day. Let's get real, stop trying to subject ANY group of people's inherent rights to "a show of hands", and move on to one of the truly pressing problems facing this country - like adequate employment, food and housing for everyone willing to put in an honest day's work.

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Eric S

5:10 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Ben Franklin put it best.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch. A rebublic is a well armed lamb.

We have armed our lambs of society with laws giving equal treatment and say. We live in a republic and are unencumbered by majority vote. We operate under a well written Consitutution that gives protection the the minority. Gays are a minority and are to be accorded that same protection.

Edukas

11:36 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Choose the Bible or choose from the government, they provide those who got AIDs they will help you if you got sick to dead. Bible clear for man and woman. Do not follow what the Roman's Empire give you enjoy other than Bible.

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Rev. Tom Cormier

3:55 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Jesus say nothing about same sex love. and don't quote me leviticus most Christian do not abide by those laws except to point the finger at others. ever ware permanent press (mixed fabrics) or cotton and wool? you are an abomination!!!

Bob Zahm

12:32 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

How about re-phrasing the poll question - "Do you believe that the State should be in the marriage business at all - independent of gender, race, etc?"

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Rev. Tom Cormier

3:57 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Marriage has and will continue to be a civil contract it is only recently in human history that churches got involved. As a minister what makes the marriages I do legal has nothing to do with any deity I might invoke but the fact the I am representing the state in the ceremony.

Elizabeth

1:15 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

In response to "Opinion":
Homosexual behavior has been documented in over 400 different species. Homophobia only exists in ONE.

If you don't like same-sex marriage, DON'T HAVE ONE.

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Scott Korin

2:53 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

The government has real reason to legally define marriage. You should just be able to have paperwork establishing a domestic partnership for tax & inheritance purposes, that's all. It's up to each individual church government body to decide whether to marry to people of the same sex. The government shouldn't be involved. And if you don't go to church, you can go to a justice of the peace if you want to. But I don't see why the government should require it.

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Scott Korin

2:57 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

"two people", not "to people" (sigh)...

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Rev. Tom Cormier

4:00 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

the reality is that marriage is a civil contract and a church wedding is nothing more than a blessing on the relationship

Mike

3:38 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Against gay marriage?

1) Mind your own business. You are free to believe that being gay is wrong or that gay marriage is wrong, but you are not free to deny others the same freedoms and protections you have. Other people getting married should not concern you or your marriage at all.

2) If marriage is a religious ceremony, why are atheists and other types of non-religious people allowed to marry? That's because marriage can be a religious ceremony if you want it to, but it can also just be a civil and legal affair.

3) If marriage is about procreation, why are infertile couples allowed to marry? That's because ideally marriage should be about love, and procreation comes second.

4) Gay marriage leads to acceptance of polygamy? Once again, mind your own business. If multiple consenting adults want to marry each other, how would that in any way affect your life or your marriage?

5) Gay marriage leads to marriage between man and other animals? Non-human animals cannot give consent, nor can they sign a marriage document or say "I do."

6) You oppose same-sex marriage for religious reasons? Well, the United States is officially a secular nation, it is written in the first amendment of the Constitution that "Congress shall not make any law respecting an establishment of religion." And while many people in this country are religious, the views of one religion does not and should not apply to all the people in the country.

And once again, mind your own business.

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Mike

3:43 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

If you are against gay marriage, don't have one.
If you're against polygamous marriage, don't have one.
If you are against abortion, don't have one.
If you are against cheeseburgers, don't eat one.

it's as simple as that. But if other people aren't against these things, don't deny them the opportunity to have them. Just because you don't like cheeseburgers doesn't mean you should deny other people the opportunity to have them.

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Patriot2

6:16 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

If you want to see deviants at work, go to a Gay Pride parade sometime!! Then tell me you believe that behavior is acceptable and appropriate for a civil society and as a model for your children. I disapprove of gay marriage as a recognized norm in America.

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Pamela Porter

6:55 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

@Patriot2:

"If you want to see deviants at work, go to a (Mardi Gras parade/tailgate party for the Florida-Georgia game/Lafayette drinking party on College Hill/the Catholic Church at any number of times in history/organized religion in general at any number of times in history/massage parlors that cater to straight men/strip clubs that cater to straight men) sometime!! Then tell me you believe that behavior is acceptable and appropriate for a civil society and as a model for your children"

There. Fixed those choices for ya.

John

8:13 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

Same sex marriage. Hmmm. Penis and a vagina, that's how it works.

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Josh Popichak

9:30 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

According to whom? You? Who are you to decide what works and what doesn't for other law-abiding citizens? And if you're going to tell me "it's in the Bible," see Mike's excellent post above. America is a secular country--not a theocracy.

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Daughter of the Most High

11:39 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

Very true, John, and Jesus said this:

Matthew 19:4 - 6 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Because that's the way The Creator made us. We fit like two pieces of a puzzle.

Last I checked, the anus was made for the removal of WASTE and toxins from our bodies, not sex. :)

Pirmigrin

9:34 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

It seems like the anti Gay marriage crowd is more interested in homosexual sex than homosexuals are themselves. Bottom line, it doesnt effect me or you one bit.....not at all. This is not a religious issue, so leave your bible thumping elsewhere. So if two people are in love, and want to marry each other, that is there right to do so and nobody else should have any say whatsoever.

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Pirmigrin

9:39 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

And in addition for the Hypocrites that are stating its against the bible, here are a few more things that are banned by the Bible.

Shaving (Leviticus 19:27)

Cursing (Ephesians 5:4)

Gossip (Leviticus 19:19)

Eating Lobster (Leviticus 11:10)

Eating Pork (Leviticus 11:7)

Cotton/Polyster Blends (Leviticus 19:19)

Associating w/ Women who are having their Periods (Leviticus 15:19-20)

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Know the Facts

8:43 am on Monday, May 14, 2012

Pirmigrin..."Associating w/ women who are having their periods" is banned in the bible? Hell...any man who knows a woman doesn't need the bible to tell them that.

Stew

10:01 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012

All of you have great insight, but as I look over the writings this is the problem with The United States of America. This is a great problem to have the ability to discuss a topic such as"Gay Marriage or Civil Union or Straight Marriage or Marriage." I know many who are both and the important thing to remember is that regardless of the marital circumstances, the individuals deserve respect. We as a society need to accept the differences of others (political, religious, education, .etc) and come together with the notion that we are all in this together and we need to get along.
If you believe that being gay is a sin, then didn't Jesus say to, "Hate the sinner but love the sinner." If so, then remember everyone has feelings regardless of their sexual preference and that all people should be treated with dignity, with not exception.

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Rev. Tom Cormier

1:17 am on Monday, May 14, 2012

Stew I think you meant " Hate the sin but love the sinner" I agree with most of your post, though sexual preference should be orientation because preference indicates a choice and I have never met anyone that chose to be gay only a few that chose to stop pretending they were straight. The problem with most religious conservatives of any religion is 1. they are afraid they might be wrong so need every one to agree with them or 2 and worse, they are absolutely sure their way is the only way, are out to "save" the world and feel justified in trying to impose their will upon the rest of us.
So to those rightwing Christians that have posted here let me paraphrase Jesus's teachings for you. I am not going to qoute chapter and verse as I am sure you know them better than I.
1 the greatest commandment: "Love God with all your heart, mind and soul and second only to this is Love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two hang all the law and the prophets." So if your judgement is not based in love it is faulty.
continued next post

Rev. Tom Cormier

1:17 am on Monday, May 14, 2012

2. "Remove the beam from your own eye before you try to remove the speck from your brothers eye" We have enough work to do on ourselves that we should not be worrying about what we think someone else is doing wrong.
3. "Love one another not as the world loves you but as I love you" i.e. unconditionally see#1
4 " Let he(or she) who is without sin cast the first stone" no explaination needed
5 " whatever you do to the least of these(your follow human beings) that you do unto me" Let's talk about the gay jokes, bullying, and resultant self loathing that a lot of gays especially young gays feel because of the abusive dominant culture. The suicide rate to adolescent gays is so much higher than their peers. One day ( before God) that will be answered for.
6 and lastly (I know we will disagree on this ) " I am the Truth, the Way and the Life" Most Christians believe they must Believe in, pray to, worship Jesus. I have always understood this as ".Here is my example, follow it" You are not "saved" by believing in Jesus you are "saved" ( not that I believe we need saving) by a sincere effort (yes we will fall short) to follow His example. No not give up your families and roam the countryside preaching. Care of the sick, the poor, the disenfranchised and marginalized.
If the rest of your "Book" confuses you throw it out!!!!

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Lani

4:05 am on Monday, May 14, 2012

Support! This is not a religious issue, it is a civil rights issue! Religion does NOT belong in the government, period. If you want to protect the sanctity of marriage, make divorce illegal. Look at Rush Limbaugh. What wife is he on? Number four? And he's saying that gay marriage is going to ruin the sanctity of marriage as a whole? You have got to be kidding me. So it's OK for Brittany Spears to be married for a whopping 55 hours, but if Sally marries Jessica, that's an attack on marriage?! And if I hear the "it's not natural because they can't make babies" argument one more time, I'm going to scream! What about all of those straight couples that can't have children without adoption? Should it be illegal for them to get married? Or the couples that do not want kids? Illegal as well? Or heck, better not let those gays adopt children (you know, the ones that were abandoned by STRAIGHT couples)!

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Know the Facts

8:40 am on Monday, May 14, 2012

This issue is no different than abortion. If you don't agree with it, then don't do it. I hate how so many people want to push their religious beliefs on others. News Flash....not everyone looks at religion the same way. That's the great part of this country. I have been married over 25 years, if two men or two woman want the same frustrations we have, I say go for it.

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WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.

9:06 am on Monday, May 14, 2012

This dialogue is extremely entertaining..I say keep it up, unless nothing new is getting said anymore...OBAMA IS RIGHT!

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John Thomas

11:41 am on Monday, May 14, 2012

Allowing gay marriage....it's the same as allowing old men to have consentual sex with young boys...the same as allowing a father/mother to have sex with his daughter/son...the same as allowing women to have intercorse with a donkey. News to you who quote the constitution but have never read it....Homosexuality is NOT a right. It protects citizens from discrimination on the basis of race, creed, color...NOT sexual preference. If you choose to be a homosexual as with other depravities (beastiality, incest, pedifiles, criminals, theives, sodomites) then you must accept the consequences, limitations and distinctions that come with.

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Josh Popichak

1:09 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Please refer to Patch's Terms of Use, which includes our Acceptable Use Policy, part of which states that when commenting, "Without limitation, you agree that you will not post or transmit to other users anything that contains Content that: ...is defamatory, abusive, obscene, profane or offensive; ...(and) is threatening, harassing or that promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual." What you have written is a violation of this policy and further efforts to promote bigotry/hatred could result in the removal of your comments. To read the full policy: http://hellertown.patch.com/terms.

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Frank

1:24 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

John Thomas, my God, man, are you really this stupid?

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Rev. Tom Cormier

1:41 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

not only is allowing gay marriage none of the things you mentioned being gay is not a peference or a choice but the way God created. As homosexuals are an estimated 10% of the population you will find that 90% of the perpetrators of the depravities you mentioned are heterosexual. Obviously you missed the point of my comment above to which you commented "very well said" I suggest you go back and read it again.

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John Thomas

12:27 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

Actually "Reverend"...which is what YOU call yourself...If you were in fact a Reverend then you would know the they are in fact EXACTLY the same in the eyes of the lord and anyone with the intellegence and morals greater than a Goat! But this is obviously a liberal driven conversation then most of the people posting here need not apply.

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Daughter of the Most High

11:51 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

Truth! And to Josh, the consequences he is referring to, are those that God does....if you have read the story of Sodom, then you know what happened to that city because of their immorality. I fear God, you obviously do not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwTVFk1HK3Y

John Thomas

11:42 am on Monday, May 14, 2012

...and dont quote Obama...it shows how truely stupid you really are.

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WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.

12:00 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Stupid?..Back to name calling once again...What you just said about homosexuality is beyond stupid...It's total idocy!

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Rev. Tom Cormier

6:43 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

as St. Oran said "the way you think it is may not be the way it really is at all"

Monday

12:09 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Totally against it. In this life you may practice as you please, in eternity it will all come out. Make this life count, folks. Seek Christ while there's still time.

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Rev. Tom Cormier

1:44 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

I know many Gay Christians. Perhaps it is you that needs to reexamine your faith.

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Susan Koomar

1:37 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Folks, We appreciate the spirited exchange here but, please, no name calling. It violates Patch's terms of service for this forum and adds nothing to a civil discussion of the issue. Please state your opinion and the reasons behind it politely without disparaging anyone who disagrees with you.

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Dana

4:17 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

I have not read ALL of the comments above but what would it hurt to just give the couples in civil unions a few extra's? Like how about all states representing the fact that they are in a legal union and possibly giving them a few more rights? I don't have a problem with the gay community but I do believe that the term 'marriage' belongs to a woman & man's union. Just my opinion.

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Josh Popichak

6:01 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

The problem with the scenario you are recommending is that it's basically identical to the "separate but equal" system that existed as part of the racially segregated south. And we all know how well that system worked. Simply put, it didn't. What makes you think it will be any different for gay and heterosexual people? The only answer is to treat all people the same--with honesty and fairness. To reserve the term "marriage" for opposite-sex couples implies that there is something more sacred, more special, i.e. better, about their unions, when in fact there is not.

InFloodZone

4:47 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Can't we all just get along?

True, homosexuality isn't natural - we ARE here to reproduce, right? But at the end of the day, if John and Bill wish to get married, it won't affect my life one bit. Eat, drink and be merry with whomever one wishes.

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roger

5:31 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

I am a Roman Catholic and personally I view being gay as disgusting and immoral. Being gay is not normal, less than 5% of the world's population is gay. Its against my beliefs. Thats my opinion, you asked and I told you. However wrong and disgusting I think being gay is, gays are people and US Citizens just like us normal people and we are all guaranteed the same rights. So do I support gay marriage yes because my beliefs are mine and not everyones. If I forced my beliefs on everyone there would be not alcohol, no cigarettes, no condoms, no birth control, no coffee, no soda, no premarital sex, and no porn. All these things are legal and many people use them but I don't. As long as my church and other churches are protected from having to perform gay marriages then let gays be married and enjoy the same rights normal couples do. "Do onto to others as you would want done to you"

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Eric S

7:59 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

A sensible point of view Roger. I too have a dislike, even distain, for many things. Of those things I refrain by my own moral code. But I have no right to force others to adhere to my thinking or actions. So long as their behaviors or actions aren't a direct threat to me I leave them in peace. Of course, if those actions or behaviors are a direct threat to me I leave them in pieces.

As I said before, we live in a country that is guided by a Consititution not a religion. I'm fine with a religious aspect being used to foster honesty and integrity in our governing leaders, but I refuse to allow religion to be the guiding force of political and social agendas.

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careless fills

10:23 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

It's a slippery slope though. Our "first gay" president (as some of his friends have called him) has already forced your church to pay for abortions through his unilaterally proclaimed executive order.

roger

9:04 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

Another thing I'd like to add is that this issue should be left up to the states. I'm a big fan of states rights. A person should live in the state that best fits their beliefs. If you like pot the best state for you is California, if you're a socialist the best state for you is Washington, if you want welfare move to New Jersey, if you are cuban Florida is the state for you, etc. Just using some humor to explain why I am a huge fan of states rights. Each state is best suited at meeting the needs of their citizens. The federal government just screws things up. If the citizens of a state want gay marriage then it should be up to them to vote on that issue.

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Josh Popichak

11:27 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012

If this is issue is left up to a vote of state residents then there will be no same sex marriage. Exhibit A is California, which, even though it is one of the most liberal states, enacted a ban on same-sex marriage in 2008 (Prop 8). Homosexuality would be criminalized in many states if left up to the whims of voters. You say you disapprove of the federal government's involvement in issues such as this, but without the involvement of the federal government 150 years ago half the states would still have legalized slavery. All minorities are basically doomed when it comes to voter referendums, and I don't want to live in a society where "minorities lose" simply by virtue of their smaller numbers. That is not a civilized society.

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Patriot2

9:15 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

Roger has a very valid point that marriage should be a state issue and one can choose to live in the state which most reflects their point of view. The Federal Government elects to sanctify that marriage is between and man and woman because that is the accepted norm for America. I love my dog but don't think the government should recognize me marrying my dog nor allow my dog to receive my inheritance tax free. I love my brother but don't think that justifies marriage. If I choose to live with my brother why should we get a tax break or be eligible for health care coverage as spousal coverage? Both of these would be a big hit to the US Treasury that would affect all other people. So recognizing gay marriage does impact others with respect to paying more taxes to cover the shortfall. I truly believe that well over half of the gay population chooses to be gay for the lifestyle rather than their alledged being "born gay".

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Eric S

5:49 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

On this aspect I disagree. We're in America, no one should need to move because a law suits them better, particularly when it's a law that affects everyone. And how does this idea of gay marriage/state rights work if their married in CA then move to Texas?
I do get where your coming from, that issues not directly addressed by the Constitution become issues handled at the state level. But Article IX of the COTUS states "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." I think we can agree marriage is a right not enumerated in the COTUS. But clearly we have the right to be married. Article/Amendment 9 covers the right not expressed directly. Marriage is a right protected at the federal level. Road tolls are covered at a state level, as are knife blade lengths and fire codes.

Rev. Tom Cormier

10:07 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

@patriot2 your erronious belief does not change the fact that people are born gay, it is not a choice. That is why it is called sexual orientaion. Who would choose it? As far as your tax comments most gays are gainfully employed and pay more than their fair share of taxes especially if they are in a relationship and sharing a household.

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Patriot2

10:17 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

You call it sexual orientation while I call it sexual preference. I understand that most gays work and pay taxes but presumably you and others pushing for gay marriage want the marital deduction and to use the married tax schedule which would dramatically reduce federal revenues thus impacting all other Americans negatively.

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John Thomas

5:14 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

"People are born Gay". Funny, that's exactly what the president of NAMBLA said in an interview. That they were born that way too...Funny too that NAMBLA used to be part of GLAAD (Gay and Lesbien Alliance). And guess what psycologists say about Criminal Psycopaths....Yep, you guessed it...."Born that way".

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Eric S

5:54 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

They also, generally, get fewer tax credits such as the child credit or dependents. This causes them to pay a higher tax.

Rev. Tom Cormier

10:28 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

preference indicates choice but obviously that conversation is like beating a dead horse. Actually it is not about annual taxes it is about hospital visits, say in care, automatic inheritance if one partner dies it is about all I believe the number is 713 federal rights that a married couple automatically gets by being married. It is about security and protection from having lives shattered and property seized. The federal government subsidizing oil companies is reducing the revenues more than some more marriages ever would. Let's not forget about the millionaires paying a smaller percentage of their income than most of the middle class.

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Bob Jones

10:49 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

I'm for anything that gets the bible thumper’s panties in a knot and gay marriage clearly does. The multiple marriages/divorce/new family cycle by hetero couples seems to be more of an affront to the institution than a committed gay marriage in my opinion.

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roger

11:19 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

No one really know what makes gay people gay. For some gays they don't become gay until later in adulthood and some are gay at 16. The truth is that less than 5% of the over 7 billion people in the world are gay so we can all agree thats not normal. Another statement I dislike is that God makes gay people which is false. God made only 3 people Adam and Eve and Jesus. The rest of us were spawned from them and we have free will which lets us become what we want to become. Some gays turn gay because the opposite sex does not like them, I know many gays like this. Some gays were gay since they could remember. Whatever makes gay people gay it probally can be cured. Doctors have found links in gay people that is not found in nomral people. Gays are still humans no matter how disgustung we normal people think it is they still deserve to be happy(gay) and enjoy the same rights as us. This is a complete 360 from when I was younger. Now I look at it as they leave me alone and I leave them alone. Mutual respect. I don't care to know what goes on in peoples bedrooms. I don't go around screaming I'm straight and I don't want gays throwing their sexual preference in my face. Just lets all live our lives and stop worrying what everyone else is doing. Life is too short God would want us all to get along

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Eric S

5:58 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

So let me get this right. Adam and Eve came along. No one else. They had kids, Cain and Abel. So....where did Cain and Abel get their wives? Well it appears that Adam and Eve indeed had other kids....apparently some were female. So Cain and Abel married their sisters. Oh this is getting ugly fast.

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Rev. Tom Cormier

6:49 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

the accepted figure is about 10% of the population. Nobody becomes gay later in adulthood they just stop trying to be straight. Adam and Eve are part of the Jewish and later Judeao Christian creation myth but not the only people mentioned because after caine was banished he went into the land of Nod and found a wife.

Allan Bach

4:21 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

Changing the definition of a word has consequences. At times, a change may affect the way we use the word. Other times, a change may remove the word from our vocabulary. What is a civil right? Do any rights exist that are not civil? Where does a right originate?
The question posed is “Do You Support Gay Marriage?” Since the word marriage is defined as the union between man and woman, it’s impossible to support that which does not exist – at least not presently. The question should be “Do You Support Re-defining Marriage?”
Many comments here are centered on religion and its views on the subject of homosexuals. Old Testament verses are referenced by self-appointed Biblical “scholars”. Christians are advised not to use their “Bible-thumping” tactics when posting their views. However, telling a Christian not to use their Bible to defend their view is like telling an American not to use their Constitution to defend their freedoms. I find the problem with both is very few read– or know– the source. A quick Google search is all that is needed to become educated and tell readers the “truth”.
(cont'd)

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Eric S

6:02 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

The issue isn't defending a point of view with Biblical beliefs, it's expecting everyone else to believe the same thing or force others to live within those beliefs. Sounds kinda Taliban-ish to me.

Allan Bach

4:22 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012

Eating pork and a man not lying with another man are two different types of edicts. One is ceremonial, the other is moral. Some have written that the Bible has no bearing on any debate in our country. Did Thomas Jefferson have the right to say, “And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a Gift of God? “
Should marriage be re-defined? If so, the word may go the way of others. I can no longer say that I find something queer, or I tuned my car’s engine and had to retard the timing. I cannot dig a hole with a spade, nor can I clean my house so it is spic and span. No more manhole covers, no firemen, and no male or female, for today we have gender, and it is in the form of an acronym – LGBT. Where do you fit into this?
I wonder how many commenters would be willing die for their belief. I almost did when I served my country – a country I believe in so greatly that I was willing to give my life to preserve the very freedom that allows people to write their comments on a Patch forum.
Be careful about changing definitions. Freedom may well be the next word on the list.

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WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.

7:00 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012

"Virginia GOP-controlled legislature blocked the nomination of a judge to the district court because he is gay"...So this anti-same sex marriage debate is not confined to this issue but also to a despicable bigotry against this group of citizens...Talk about small government.

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Patriot2

7:45 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Are you sure he was blocked because he was gay or because of a far-left agenda? There is a big distinction as some gays are conservative in their views on issues important to the bench and likely acceptable to the GOP and others are not. Why is it that whenever a gay or woman or minority race person doesn't get a job or gets fired, everyone wants to assume it to be bigotry? There are a whole host of reasons that people are hired or fired.

WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.

8:47 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Patriot2

I regret to say that I don't know how to print a link for all to read, but if you can go to the Huffington Post, you'll read there that his being gay and has gay agenda got him in trouble...The lawmaker has labeled this lifestyle a disordered behavior...To me that's a blatant bigotry!

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WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr.

3:09 pm on Thursday, May 17, 2012

Addendum: The Republican lawmaker who led the effort to reject a gay judge for the district court (same guy who said homosexuality is a disordered behavior) now says that sodomy is not a civil right...That's not what we are arguing about...What's sodomy got to do with judicial ruling?..This gentleman must think judges are as dumb as he is...Calling people with lifestyles different from yourself second class citizens is bigotry...Bigots do not belong in a civilized society.

Marcella

12:17 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

I support gay marriage.
I'm a Christian, because I always say: If God is against gay people, He wouldn't have made them.
What will happen when gay marriage gets legal?
Zombies attack. 0%
Everyone will die. 0%
Gay people will destroy the world. 0%
The world will explode. 0%
Gay people will marry. 100%

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Eric S

3:52 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

And it promotes the concept of equality. In the end that is the crux of the matter. It's nothing more than people demanding the same equality as everyone else. Your point is, in my view, quite correct. Gay marriage isn't going to cause any harm except to those who have no true concept of either freedom or equality. Nowhere in our Constitution does religion come into play as a guiding force. In fact exactly the opposite. We have freedom of religion which also creates a freedom FROM religion. One of our basic tenets is seperation of church and state. Those opposed to gay marriage...and seeking to outlaw it....based on religious beliefs are not being adherent to the concept of religious freedom nor the disinclusion of religion in creating laws.

Rev. Tom Cormier

5:51 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012

thought this thread was done months ago!! Maddie and "daughter of the most high" arrogant as you are ignorant. Hebrew the first language!!! Really?? Get your nose out of the bible and learn some world history! Marriage is not a Godly term it is a people term. Adam and Eve were not married, Most of the patriarchs had multiple wives and the Kings also had concubines and slaves at their beck and call. It is difficult to actually find examples of one man one woman marriage in the bible compared to all the other forms. Not Rev. of (or from whatever you said) hell but in hell with idoits like you claiming to be Christian and knowing the mind of God. By the why it is not there sin it is their sin!!! Fact the bible says nothing about same sex love!! oops there was Saul and Jonathan, Ruth and Ester their oft quoted love statement at weddings a statement between two women. Then Jesus never said anything one way or the other about same sex love but there is the story of the Centurian who asked for his "pias" to be healed, translated in the modern bible as servant translated elsewhere in literature as lover. Jesus healed him commenting only on the Centurians faith. Homosexuality is not a choice but using your misunderstanding of Christ's teachings as a vehicle for hate and discrimination is.

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Allan Bach

8:47 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012

"idiots like you" may not be the best phrase to respond to another's views. Do you use the same words with your followers? You advise the people to "get your nose out of the Bible" and then proceed to use Biblical references to correct them. I find this odd.
The Greek word is "pais" (I'll give you the mis-keying error) and I've not been able to find it used in reference to a lover anywhere.
I'm curious - where did you receive your ordination?

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Eric S

7:47 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012

It sure would have been helpful if you replied to the exact post to which you are referring. But no matter, I'll see if we can't hold your hand while we cross the street.

Followers? What followers? Am I being followed? Damn, now I'm getting paranoid. But if I did/do have followers yeah, I'd call them an idiot if that was the term I label them with. Apparently I don't really give a damn if they like it or not.

I don't suppose you have much of a grip on irony. People are spewing Biblical quotes to make their point yet ignoring Biblical quotes that counter their point. Ok, maybe not ironic. But hipocritical sure does ring a bell.

Can you give me a little direction about this "Pais" thing? I don't recall at all what your referring to. Maybe a post from several months ago? I don't know, maybe even a quote mistakenly believed to be mine? Anyway, can you point that out, then I'll address it. I'm either too lazy, stupid or unconcerned to find it myself. But it appears your not.

No ordination. Why, does one need to be ordained to discuss religion, have an opinion on religion or be /not be religious? I do remember a post of mine referring to the Taliban. Your giving me flashbacks.

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Allan Bach

7:31 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012

Eric, your anger is not needed toward me. Read Tom's post, pais (spelled pias by him) is used in his post (directly above mine) to which I was replying. Tom was cordial in his answer to my questions. Ordination is required to use the title Reverend. Usually Bishops have followers.Whatever happened to make you so antagonistic toward the Bible and Christians is something I cannot help you with.

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Eric S

11:02 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012

Yes. I see how I your August 11, 8:47 as towards me. The email starts Eric S. My mistake and apology.

But my post wasn't in anger, and can in essence be seen as supportive of Tom. Particularly the statement referring to Biblical quotes.

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Eric S

11:06 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012

I gotta get more sleep. or drink less, or take better drugs. I can see how I MISTOOK your post........

Again, sorry for the mistaken response, and now the confusing series of posts. I'll shut up now.

One final thought. I am supportive of the right of gay people to marry. There, done. Carry on folks.

Rev. Tom Cormier

9:58 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012

Allan I will admit to a low tolerance of intolerant people. "bible references" you have to talk to people in their own language, using references to some other sacred text would have been pointless. Before someone else corrects me it may have been David and Jonathan instead of Saul (always mix them up) it's been awhile since I have delved the pages of the OT so it could be Ruth and someone else as well yet it is still two males and two females expressing undying love for each other in the OT.
I first heard of this definition many years ago and recently saw an article on the Huffington Post. Here are three links to articles I found on google: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/gay_couple.html

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Centurion-And-Pais.html

http://www.christiang0y.com/Jesus_and_the_Centurion.html
I am an Interfaith Minister Ordained by the School of Sacred Ministries and
a priest and bishop of the French Gnostic Church not that your opinion of my vredentials really matters to me.
Since this thread fired up again one might think in connection with the Chick-fil-A controversy let's be clear that the protests were not about Cathy's freedom of speech but about the money he gives to organizations that literally harm the GLBT community. you can do your own google search on that one.

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Allan Bach

10:42 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012

Thanks for the reply. I now know you're a Gnostic and where you received your credentials. I think it does matter where any person of title receives such title. As to the links, I know anyone can use the Internet for confirmation of a belief. I prefer to use trusted scholarship.
Maybe some day we will cross paths and have a dialogue in person. Till then, I pray for tolerance of others.

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Rev. Tom Cormier

12:38 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012

My spirituality is informed by having read much of the worlds sacred scripture and also having some concept of the societies in and for which it was written, it is why I became an Interfaith Minister. From your response I am not sure if you looked at the links. I believe at least one referenced the scholars that wrote it. The internet can also provide truth that we don't want to believe. Only the most liberal Christian churches would publish an article on this topic, most would suppress it as "confusing to the faithful". Truth is where you find it and has no regard for belief.
A point of clarification: the "get your nose out of the Bible and learn some world history" comment was directed at the person that stated that hebrew was the worlds first language. In the big picture Jesus and the centurion is about Faith, the faith of an outsider, feared and possibly hated by the Jewish community. Because of this outsiders Faith in Jesus the other person was healed. The other picture for the GLBT community is that Jesus would have understood the relationship and healed without commenting on or condemning the relationship which does not mean support but could mean it was a non issue for him.

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Emma

4:57 am on Saturday, August 18, 2012

BOTTOM LINE: There are many viewpoints on the various aspects of homosexuality in all its dimensions. It's impossible to have more than ONE TRUTH. The ONE TRUTH that stands against every opposing emotion, personal or mass opinion, belief, religion and gut wrenching stance - for or against its respective issues. This ONE TRUTH will be given to each one of us, individually, one second after we take our last breath and enter into eternity. Eternity is a long, long, long time. Try to comprehend the length of eternity. Make sure you find out what that ONE TRUTH is! Be 100% sure your own truth does not enter the equation in finding it. Losing your eternal soul is not worth the risk under any circumstance, person, place or thing! When you find it, you will know it beyond the shadow of a doubt. You will have an overwhelming sense of peace and joy. No longer tortured with doubt, fear and the question: "what if..."

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