What Shira Goodman doess not realize is that in the case of Fort Hood, there may be plenty of well trained soldiers but they are not armed. Soldiers are not issued ammunition until they are in a war zone. So these soldiers were defenseless until the police arrived with their weapons.

First, I want all children to safely attend school without the threat of some loon, student or outsider, killing children. With that said, using statistics rather than the emotional tail wagging the dog, let's look at facts. There have been more teachers in Pennsylvania convicted of childhood porn and sexual deviance against a child than murders in schools nationwide. So the concept of allowing faculty to carry a weapon into schools --- to quote Mayor Nutter --- "dumb-ass idea". There have been more plane crashes over the last decade, actually 3x more, than shootings in our schools, so the idea of placing armed guards in every school, again, "dumb-ass idea".

Schools could consider closing their campuses, where students, once they are inside a building, stay inside a building, allowing visitors to pass through a single entranceway. I know my "freedom of will" friends will have a problem with this concept, as this will limit the freedoms, but it will keep the kids safer. I think installing security cameras at these doors will allow those who monitor these doors would be able to see if a person is carrying an assault rifle or not. I would recommend training for these gatekeepers, and responsibility of visitors to adhere to these requirements. I dont see this as anything different than what we do at airports today. Society has changed, and it is considerably less safe than it was a decade ago.

No matter what we do, someone motivated will get around security.

Who comes up with these talking points, really? What Republican strategist mentions this while they sit around in their smoke filled rooms, and what, exactly, were they smoking? And on top of that, how was it everyone else in the room said "that's a good idea!"

Arming the teachers...the first line of defense for our children...IS a good idea!

I am sitting here trying to picture all the school teachers I have known over the years. Now I'm thinking of them armed. ..........Holy cats! If I thought that in any way this was a good idea I would by default have failed any psychological testing requirement for carrying a firearm myself.

I am 65 years old, began hunting at age 12 and owned my first hand gun when I was 16 years old. My father taught me gun safety and to respect other people. Maybe we are missing the big picture. Why are these young people wanting to KILL PEOPLE? Does it have anything to do with the violent society we live in today? We need lead by example and show our young people that when you show respect to other people they will be kinder to you and others around them.
Let's start a new trend and just to be nice to everyone.

I am with Nutter. It's a dumb-ass idea.

By state law our public schools are supposed to give a hiring preference to veterans of military service with an honorable discharge

On balance I suspect arming staff in schools is a slight positive --but it may not do much as to those bent on crazy conduct.

But be careful this is not a ploy by certain union mentalities to have one more excuse as to extra pay for extra duty! Although personally I think a kindergarten teacher with a carry permit might be more useful than one with a EdD ?

Prohibition of self defense for school employees has created a gun free killing zone. Thus creating an arena where sickos can act out their demented plans fully knowing that their targets will be defenseless. Knowledge that armed people will be present acts as a deterrent to would be shooters. Look at where these mass shootings happen - schools, movie theaters, and other places where they are likely to receive little or no resistance. Gunmen don't attack police stations or shooting ranges. The Federal Gun Free Schools Zone Act should be repealed and teachers and other district employees should be permitted to defend themselves and those around them.

Arming teachers is an awful idea. Unless a person is trained in urban combat, what makes anyone think that they could respond attentively with deadly force without putting even more people at risk? Also, and I said it before, just a couple years ago the same people discussing arming teachers were demonizing them at pariah feeding off the tax payer. Now they're fit to be armed security. So which one is it? Are we going to give raises to teachers for filling both roles as educators and security? More guns aren't the answer.

It is a crazy idea. Ever read some of the stories about some teachers? Drug arrests for dealing and doing, sexual relationships with students, child porn, behaving badly in classes, etc.

Just what kids need, a pissed off crazy teacher with a grudge and a gun.

If the principa; of Sandy Hook School had confronted the assailant trained and in posession of a firarm(instead of empty handed) No children would have died that day. Presient Obam and most of his adminsration have armed guards as do their childrens private schools. It seems only fair that our children have the same protections

@Ronnie- teachers do not already fill both roles, at least not in the manner you're seeking. Quite honestly, you're glib approach to such a concept is concerning. You difn't ddress my point about adequate training; proper handling, accuracy, urban combat, hostage situations and triage. That's real security. Not an educator with a gun on their hip. Nor did you address the existing pov of teachers by the very people proposing arming them. Seems there was little trust for teachers just a couple years ago when people were beating them up over pensions and such. Now you want to arm them and hope they respond properly in potentially violent situations. All without any discussion of increases in pay or financing for proper training.

What we really need is proactive, rather than reactive, discussion and ACTION on many issues facing our country. Nevertheless, we will never eradicate evil. There is no way to anticipate when an individual is planning an unexpected, violent act; and, certainly, no way to anticipate when a mind will "snap." Having worked in psychiatry, I am surprised these atrocities don't happen more often. We've created a culture where these acts of a need for 15 minutes of fame, power, anger, and skewed thinking as a result of mental illness or the acceptance of violence as normal, will continue. Coupled with the our mental health system having been disassembled by our less than astute elected officials, the problem has been exacerbated. Honestly, although I believe we need to continue a search for a solution, this train has left the station and isn't returning anytime soon, if ever!

will teacher pay go up for also now protecting students? if no teacher, then what will taxes look like to hire a few more police just to patrol school full time? we should have as part of service to country, our national guard, each serve 1 year patrolling?

My son will go to school by couple of years
and I am scared to death to send him to PA school while I know there will be guns in the classroom.
First, in history we have seen on-balanced teachers... how can I trust such a person have a GUN!
I agree to have more securities in our schools like malls, and casinos...but please do not let our teachers carrying guns
Second, if I were a teacher, I would want to carry guns....I would not feel safe! I would worried all the time that my students could find and. done something irreversible
And last, we do not live in Jungle we live in the civilized and modern world.
I truly believe gun shootings are cartons, games, and Media's fault...and some people get advantage of it too!!!

I want my child to be safe at school, however, teachers already have an authoritative power over children. Authority in any situation, but especially for a child, is scary. And as John mentioned earlier about the sexual misconducts of teachers, I would be afraid of a teacher using that weapon as a means to force children into worse situations. When it comes to school shootings, I would like to point out that all or most of the shooters have been considerably mentally ill in one way or another. I believe that having more guns in sensitive areas, such as schools, is not the answer... I do believe that while Obama is trying to better health care for the nation, we have really dropped the ball on mental health support. There are many people in the world who can't afford their meds or to see a psychiatrist . I think if parents had the resources to get their young children help and medication that they need, school shootings and the like could be avoided. There are many mental illness that people have that don't pose a threat to society, but there are so many that do. People that commit these types of horrendous acts, have got to have something not wired correctly.

sure y not and while at it y not do away with stop n yield signs also the speed limit bunch of lame brains

I think I gave you an answer, improve mental health care so those that need it and need meds can get it. Took my brother a mandate from a judge to get medicare to cover his mental health after struggling for years with hurting others and himself.. much of which could have been avoided if he had his meds and decent support. Now, this answer may not be one of instantaneous correction, however, in the long run it will show to be a much bigger part of the solution than one might think. Not to mention, who is to say that a gun in a locked cabinet in a classroom could not be obtained by a strong willed teenager. I mean, you might as well just hand it to the kid. The other half of the solution is to raise our children the right way and not allow them to raise themselves. To respect others, to understand the finality of death, what it means to be a productive member of society and the community, and what it actually means to take another persons life. Their life!! how it impacts their families.. and what the consequences are for that action, morally as well as physically. I have come across 12 -13 year olds who don't even know the basics of right vs. wrong and WHY its wrong. My point is this... the quick solution isn't always the best solution and there is definitely not just one solution... it's a combination, however, putting guns in the schools and classrooms themselves is simply just not a part of the solution.

Ronnie,
Are you sure that if you are armed you can defend yourself properly, if somebody attract you?
I am not!

more guns is not the answer. teachers with guns is not the answer. why ronnie delblacco feels the need to moderate this article is beyond me. "The only way to stop someone from shooting at you is to shoot back.." unless they are a very bad shot, you may not get the chance to shoot back. the only way to stop someone from shooting at you is to shoot first.

I am a teacher. I graduated from a PA high school, and from a PA college with a license to teach in the state. A lot teachers are discussing these issues just like the rest of society. Most of us know that Columbine or Sandy Hook could happen anywhere, including our schools. It's a terrifying thought.

I am pretty strong. I ran cross country, and threw shot put and discus in high school and college. I can move pretty fast and I am pretty tall. But, I teach high school. There are kids who are bigger and stronger and faster than I am. Kids who could overpower me, who could break into my desk if there was a concealed weapon there, could take me from behind if it is on my hip. What about those situations?

Every single possibility has to be explored. Mental illnesses do have to be taken into account. One of the classes I teach is Introduction to Psychology. Our textbook talks about mental breaks, about disassociative states. Multiple possibilities for criminal actions related to illness.

If you want to put guns in the classroom, with the teachers, you need to consider that fact. A second grader may not be able to overpower a teacher, but a senior may. A student may look perfectly fine, but could succumb to a psychotic break.

I think putting officers at schools has potential. I think giving teachers weapons has more problems then potential. And I think this is a decision that will not be made easily or soon. Most of all I hope that these tragedies never happen again.

You don't think government is the answer to ANY problem? Who will find the training, the guns and the ammo for your plan? The teachers? Any other way would have to be government funded, whether through taxes or our armed forces or whatever. I'm not paying for more guns when there are other ways for a solution.

Well spoken, Jamie..and AMEN!!!

I think that any reasonable person would agree that all schools need improved physical security to help prevent against unauthorized entry. So, let's quickly pass legislation (with funding) on this issue. The debate on arms in schools is a very contentious one and will likely go on for years. Since physical security would be part of any solution, it is irresponsible for any delay!

Where to start?

•Armed and trained security at columbine made no difference.

•Owning a gun does not make you Inspector Harry Callahan. Just as owning a Nikon doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a Nikon owner.

•Firing a gun at a paper target at a range, a side of a barn, Old Milwaukee empties, or vehicles traveling down the interstate (a moronic Texan past time) does not and will not prepare you for a firefight.

•I lived next to Ft Hood during the shooting... My children were in lockdown at school until nearly 7pm that evening. Every nitwit in town carries a sidearm and yes, the soldiers on base do not carry, but the MPs that responded do, are highly trained in how to react and it still happened.

•an escalated arms race in our schools is idiotic and outright lunacy. Aa a nation and as human beings we need to address mental illness and if we insist on allowing gun ownership we need to FIX WHAT IS CLEARLY AND PAINFULLY BROKEN!

Arming and training school teachers how to shoot to kill an armed assailant does not solve the underlying problem that guns are accessible to those who are mentally ill and that the human race does not adequately address this tragic obscene problem.

Agreed P Berger. No one in favor of arming teachers seems to want to hear the teachers saying they wouldn't want that added responsibility, nor have they mentioned how we might fund such a program; training, arming and added salary for added responsibility. They just seem to think that teachers will be more than happy to volunteer to perform this task without wanting something in return.

Why use guns? We do make taser guns that will not kill. It will put a very large person on the ground. Then the person can be handcuffed.

Tasers...perhaps. Water cannons...not fast enough. Goo sprays...really, against an active shooter wearing protection? Not so much. At least other ideas are coming forth finally, and now the conversation and agreement on other ideas can take place.

Pennsylvania also has to address that the requirements for a carry permit is only a background check, submittal of references (which I know for a fact are not always checked) and a pulse.

It was FAR more difficult to adopt my pitbull-mix, than to purchase a handgun and obtain a carry permit in PA. References on carry permit? Not checked. References and through conversations with those listed as references for adoption of my dog? Executed before I arrived home. Reference checks only being a small portion of what criteria I had to meet in order to be allowed to adopt him.

Clearly the gun laws are woefully inadequate, because if they were, we would *not* be having this conversation.

In our state transfer of handguns between spouses, parents, children and grandparents are exempt from background checks.
Training in gun safety is not required in PA or in many states. I do not like to waste my time with speculation and would rather deal with facts (oh, those darn pesky facts!), however the Lanza family knew their son had problems and he resided in a house with firearms and as it has been slipping out from neighbors, friends and family theses guns were not in a safe. The boy had access to these firearms prior to shooting his sleeping mother.

As someone I deeply admire says, good luck folks... We're going to need it.

how many grenades would be permitted to be carried? and would AR-15 and shotguns be allowed for carry as well by the teachers? bazookas? God Bless America

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8694
Here's a link for teachers wishing to get trained.

What about the liability if an armed teacher misses the perpetrator and accidentally shoots an innocent student? Firefights get chaotic. Read the deputy's transcript from Columbine to get a glimpse into the uncertainty of crisis situations.

What about air soft guns. Many look very realistic. What if a student displays one and an armed teacher responds with lethal force?

The liability concerns associated with arming teachers are enormous.

(I hate typing on a touchpad)

@Ronnie- I checked out that link. 3 days is hardly "training". It takes more effort to get a CDL.

@Ronnie- If we weren't having this conversation based on the terrible events in Connecticut, would you really feel confident with someone carrying a weapon in school after only three days training? Would you even be advocating for teachers to be armed after spending so much time and energy deriding them as a drain on taxpayers? If you were serious about school security, you would be having a real conversation about hiring professional security and how to fund it, not calling for poorly trained teachers to volunteer themselves to be a target for aggression or legal repercussions.

@Amend .. I wish I could hit a "love" button on your last post!! @Ronnie... As I have stated before .. I'm not comfortable with teachers having guns in the classrooms... However .. reading some of the pro-gun posts .. I came up with this ... The problem for me is many guns in the hands of many individuals... Is too much ... Something is bound to happen just in that situation (too many cooks in the kitchen).... Perhaps we are going too strongly on both sides here... Perhaps a better and more comfortable, suitable solution would be to have a handful of security guards or the like with non-lethal weapons ..such as tasers and what not ... But .. to also have a locked gun with only the principal and vice principal (along with reasonable crisis control training and gun control training). That way there is protection on the grounds .. but not in every hand ... This way protection is there if needed (on many levels..guards, non-lethal weapons, and lethal ). With only 2 people having access to lethal weapons..there is less likelihood of something going wrong..or misuse, or misconduct.

Chris ... Police, or military yes.... No, I wouldn't want to be unarmed..but I'm not trained in combat like these guys are ... They have armor and training on how disarm a "bad guy". I am not trained nor do I wear armor. My last sentence .. about things going wrong.. what is meant by that is that if every teacher has a gun there is a bigger likelihood for a misfire, students getting a hold of the gun, a mistake...people get jumpy and shoot when it isn't necessary and then there are still innocent lives taken, which is the exact thing we are trying to prevent... There's no reason for EVERY teacher to have a lethal weapon and I might add that there are some teachers who don't want one at all in their possession . Patrolling inside and outside is a good idea... But let's remember , its a school, not prison. One or two guns accessed to only a couple people will allow the no gun zone signs to come down.. lethal force available if needed and we don't have a bunch of vigilanties on our hands and the school is safe ..

Ronnie.. where would you like teachers to have them? On their hip? Theirs would have to be locked up and hidden too. And teachers aren't always in their classrooms to easily access their weapon. I mean, you're talking like you're all hopped up on anger and fear and your guns half cocked ... But you need to think about how the people who are in these actual situations feel.. not everyone is prepared to take a life, whether its a bad guy or not, and there are people who would love to shoot a bad guy but when they are in the situation they freeze up. I personally don't know what I would do in that situation, I've never been in one like this.. I've shot guns my whole life, but I don't know if I could shoot to kill a person. Is like to think that if my family's life was at stake , I could .. but I still swurve to miss squirrels in the road. The people who have a possibilty to be in this type of situation need to say how they feel. As a parent, I want my child safe. Bottom line. However, I do not want him to fear the very place and people who are there for his greater good. Arm the teachers themselves if it helps you, but they don't need to have lethal weapons in each hand ...

Chris... I'm all for the NRA .. I just don't think that its a great idea to have a whole lot of people with a whole lot of guns day to day in the same place. And doesn't matter to me what school board you're on..doesn't change my opinion .. I went to nazareth and my child goes to nazareth.. I would love for there to be better protection.. last month at one of OUR schools the security lock at the main entrance didn't work.. you were able to walk right in without being buzzed ... Let's work on that stuff before we get rifles in the classrooms

Melissa
In the Commonwealth they will be required to have a concealed carry license thus the gun would not be shown. Any accessories would also be hidden such as body armor. Teachers who indicate they do no want to do this will not be forced to do this nor will any one else. The schools need to lay out a plan to protect the kids and board members need to be involved.

build a fence around the schools with barb wire and have teachers carry and take turns on a tower patrolling the school yard. this will make it 100% safe. A drone hovering above the school and a principle dressed as Rambo carrying multiple weapons will sure deter any time of criminal from entering. Great learning environment.

Why don't we just arm all the honor roll students? Yeah, that's the ticket. More guns = safer schools, so arm the good students.

Yeah, let's take a pathetic, adolescent idea and run it into the end zone.

Good luck, kids.

Ronnie... Yes as a matter of fact... And so is everyone else... Otherwise there would be no auto insurance..health insurance or life insurance if we weren't all afraid of of just one idiot (in a crowd of millions) behind the wheel of a vehicle. And hammers ? Really? The only way a hammer is gonna kill someone is if its in the hands of a deranged lunatic...which takes us back to my first point of mental health support. Don't grasp at straws dude. Come on.

So tell me Mr. Delbacco... What insurance are you prepared to offer me in the case that one of your guns, that was part of a whole lot guns in the hands of a whole lot of people , shoots and injures or kills my child ?? I talked to.my 9 year old about this ..I said how would you feel if your teacher carried a gun in class... He said that it would make him feel safer on one hand and not so safe on the other... When I asked him why he said what if the teacher goes crazy or one of the kids in my class gets it. He's smart..he's got the same worries the rest of us adults have. And that's a 9 year old.

Ronnie .. half cocked is an expression which you would know if you had any sense.

@Ronnie .. the reason why it sounds like the tables are turned is because they are... My point is this .. yes all scenarios are a possibility... major or minor ... And I just want to remind you that I am for guns in the school (I have changed my mind earlier after reading others important points) , I'm just thinking less is better than a whole slew. So with that being said... Here's the other side of the table... You and others saying it would be safer for teachers to carry.. saying it makes sense for them to carry on their person. To.me, that creates a danger within itself... Sure grade school kids couldn't do much, what about grown teenagers, who are built or just intelligent, that they could disarm the TEACHER .. and now we've created the exact scenario we were trying to prevent. This is my concern.

That and a teacher "snapping" .. granted, it doesn't happen often, but they are people too ... Or a carrying teacher passing out in class from illness ... Now they are defenseless to a student trying to obtain their weapon. And with everyone telling me its safer for this reason or that (which it might be) however... There are doors of troubling scenarios that open up with many people carrying, but again...if you're telling me its for my better good and something goes wrong from within, then yes, I will be incredibly infuriated if my child was hurt, its one thing to be in the middle of a bad guy situation and an innocent getting hurt by teacher and another for it to be a regular day and someone over powers the "trained" teacher or accidental fire or carrying teacher passing out, because in this situation the very thing you are telling me is there to protect my child, kills my child. someone will pay for that in one wag or another...That's why I'm saying only the principal and vice principal should have access. After proper training and psych evals. And it should be done annually .
And yes... I actually thought you were standing in your yard with a "half cocked" gun ..responding on patch.

Melissa
Apparently you are truly in favor of doing absolutely nothing on this issue because you are scared that something migh happend to the good guys and then something will happen to the kids. Do you honestly believe that your kids would be better off going to school in the same condition as Sandy Hook. Let me suggest that you volunteer to be come one of the guards in the school or put a group together to discuss what you want to do to make your studnets safe. Maybe the PTO would be wlling to discuss this. Or you could hire a group to lay out a security plan. if we follow you at this moment we would be getting absolutely no where on the issue. You can either get on board and do something or you can continue to wring you hands and watch it happen again.

As a teacher myself I find it hard to say both yes or no on this topic. A stroll through the halls of a lot of neighboring districts will reveal how docile Nazareth is so it's easy to overlook the possible consequences of having armed teachers in the classroom. I'm sure in a city setting, once the word spreads about teachers carrying weapons (conceled or not) there will be the students who may even go as far as attacking a teacher to get ahold of a gun. Even teachers have to admit that not all teachers are good teachers or have the same morals as you and I. What happens when the first teacher draws the gun out of a fit of rage or pure insanity... There are a lot of teacher layoffs lately (ask the 400+ from my district) so is it possible when someone finds out they are losing a job, that they lose their ability to think rationally and end up using their conceled weapon on an administrator? However...... if I were given the choice to go through a background check and carry a weapon I would. That's only because I know that I won't lose the ability to think rationally or ever be in a situation where I'd consider pulling a gun on a student. I'd carry because I know to stand a chance against an intruder, you need to be able to fight back. What's the answer? Well there is no right or wrong or good way to go about getting it done. How would we raise taxes to pay for security guards? Should teachers have to be security guards besides their everyday duties of teacher (and often parent)

and it's really scary to think about the fact that we've come to a time in history where we have to even think about sending our children to school with armed teachers just to be safe....

Chris and Ronnie... You guys are all over me about debating on what "might happen"... But 99% of the time ..99% of people...99% of places are safe... So it'd on the 1% chance that a deranged shooter will come in to your school that has your rational,extremist thinking to claim we should now put 100 guns in the hands of a 100 teachers in every school everywhere ... So why is your 1% thinking better than my 1% thinking??

Ronnie .. of course they can pass out... The difference is that a tactical team or police is a buddy system of sorts ..that if the situation allows , the other buddy or team come to his aid immediately...where as a teach is out numbered 25 or more to 1 and ALONE. No I don't think the worst of our kids...however if there weren't rotten ones out there...we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Melissa
Who said anything about 100 guns in the hands of 100 teachers? I don't think that came off my computer. You might want to consider going to some NRA classes and learning ow to shoot. Of course if Obama comes for our guns, well we won't have to worry about any of that will we. You better be paying attention to what is going on with the 2nd Amendment and the man in the White House whom I suspect you voter for in November.

Bob Linney,
Here's one of the "hammer" links
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/03/FBI-More-People-Killed-With-Hammers-and-Clubs-Each-Year-Than-With-Rifles

On the traffic deaths, I meant annually. Thanks for the correction.

Mr. Linney
www.USAcoverage,com, and insurance company notes that 43,000 Americans die on a yearly basis in vehicular accidents.When do we start banning cars the most powerful weapon many of us have in our hands. Are we going to eliminate cars, trucks and more.

Chris.. First.. "100" was not in the lliteral sense... just meaning you want to put lethal weapons in the hands of many teachers... Second.. I don't know what you're reading but i never said anything about banning guns... In fact I am for guns and the 2nd amendment and have stated it many a time on here... I did NOT vote for obama.. i despise him... So please do not attack me in that way.. I have been very polite and courteous with my opinion and how i am trying to present them.. i would hope you would do the same. And to Ronnie... Thank you! Thank you for understanding my fears. I am an emotional parent trying to rationally think this out... as well are most of you.. I just feel that there has to be a happy medium between doing nothing and many teachers having guns. That's all.. not trying to take anyones freedoms away.

Dave Rex, To clarify, I was only talking about hammers vs. rifles. My bad. That was the discussion since the Sandy Hook killer used a rifle. The "assault weapons" ban mostly deals with rifles. Sorry for the confusion. I crossed conversation points there.

Amazing how clueless some people are. Sure, let all the teachers carry firearms, let's start with the kindergarten teachers. Then when a teacher loses it one day, we will blame that. Arm everyone! Seniors, kids, teachers, dogs, cats and even hamsters!

Mr. or Mrs. Parkland.
What type of people are you hiring at Parkland? Do you really believe that schools would not perform a background check on their staff. I wouls also note that you probably would not get a lot of teachers to put themselves out there as potentially armed citizens who would stand up to a bad guy who is intent on killing someone, maybe your child. Does anyone stop and think any more prior to opening one"s mouth

Ben
Whhy do you continue to point out that schools are filled with mentally illied individuals.

Ben
My apologies and I agree with what you say on school free zones. It was probably the fact that a number of people made comments on teachers having a bad day, falling to pieces and shoting the kids

Just to let everyone know that there will be a presentation at Fire Company #1 in Emmaus on “Gun Rights” Tuesday, March 19th @ 7:30 PM. Click on the highlight to go to the Flyer and info sheet on this event. We at C.E.P.T.A. invite everyone to attend and come prepared to ask your questions.
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